Comments on: Human Cost Versus Social Cost Of Letting The Big Three Die–UPDATED http://www.melissaclouthier.com/2008/11/15/human-cost-versus-social-cost-of-letting-the-big-three-die/ Information Pollination Fri, 19 Mar 2010 00:45:00 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Trish http://www.melissaclouthier.com/2008/11/15/human-cost-versus-social-cost-of-letting-the-big-three-die/comment-page-1/#comment-11280 Trish Sat, 22 Nov 2008 04:57:40 +0000 http://www.melissaclouthier.com/?p=11459#comment-11280 I think I've said this elsewhere, but-- having worked in the unemployment office, I have zero sympathy for the greedy, lazy American auto workers. I think I’ve said this elsewhere, but–
having worked in the unemployment office, I have zero sympathy for the greedy, lazy American auto workers.

]]> By: Anna http://www.melissaclouthier.com/2008/11/15/human-cost-versus-social-cost-of-letting-the-big-three-die/comment-page-1/#comment-11191 Anna Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:53:55 +0000 http://www.melissaclouthier.com/?p=11459#comment-11191 I am very curious to see that whole article, Wayne, as I find that rather out of control and inaccurate. RE: According to an article in the Wall Street Journal, the average wage is about $39/hr, and the benefits add another $34/hr onto that, resulting in a total compensation of over $150k/yr for the average employee. I am very curious to see that whole article, Wayne, as I find that rather out of control and inaccurate.

RE: According to an article in the Wall Street Journal, the average wage is about $39/hr, and the benefits add another $34/hr onto that, resulting in a total compensation of over $150k/yr for the average employee.

]]> By: WayneB http://www.melissaclouthier.com/2008/11/15/human-cost-versus-social-cost-of-letting-the-big-three-die/comment-page-1/#comment-11080 WayneB Mon, 17 Nov 2008 19:11:44 +0000 http://www.melissaclouthier.com/?p=11459#comment-11080 I was listening to something about this on the radio this morning, when they had a bankruptcy lawyer (I believe) on to talk about it. One thing a lot of people don't seem to realize regarding the auto companies: They would NOT be going out of business. The bankruptcy provisions of Chapter 11 provide for restructuring, plus working with creditors to create a plan for paying back their debt. The main reason the Union wants a bailout is because the companies would have the opportunity to cut back on some of the most costly parts of the Union contracts that have them paying enormous amounts of money in the form of benefits to both current and retired employees. According to an article in the Wall Street Journal, the average wage is about $39/hr, and the benefits add another $34/hr onto that, resulting in a total compensation of over $150k/yr for the average employee. I was listening to something about this on the radio this morning, when they had a bankruptcy lawyer (I believe) on to talk about it. One thing a lot of people don’t seem to realize regarding the auto companies: They would NOT be going out of business. The bankruptcy provisions of Chapter 11 provide for restructuring, plus working with creditors to create a plan for paying back their debt. The main reason the Union wants a bailout is because the companies would have the opportunity to cut back on some of the most costly parts of the Union contracts that have them paying enormous amounts of money in the form of benefits to both current and retired employees.

According to an article in the Wall Street Journal, the average wage is about $39/hr, and the benefits add another $34/hr onto that, resulting in a total compensation of over $150k/yr for the average employee.

]]> By: Another Case of Stupidness–Thankfully No One Is Responsible « Blog Entry « Dr. Melissa Clouthier http://www.melissaclouthier.com/2008/11/15/human-cost-versus-social-cost-of-letting-the-big-three-die/comment-page-1/#comment-11037 Another Case of Stupidness–Thankfully No One Is Responsible « Blog Entry « Dr. Melissa Clouthier Mon, 17 Nov 2008 06:45:35 +0000 http://www.melissaclouthier.com/?p=11459#comment-11037 [...] people aren’t responsible. Money men trying to make a quick buck aren’t responsible. Union leaders who push for low productivity expectations coupled with huge benefits and wages aren’t [...] [...] people aren’t responsible. Money men trying to make a quick buck aren’t responsible. Union leaders who push for low productivity expectations coupled with huge benefits and wages aren’t [...]

]]> By: liberty4usa http://www.melissaclouthier.com/2008/11/15/human-cost-versus-social-cost-of-letting-the-big-three-die/comment-page-1/#comment-11033 liberty4usa Mon, 17 Nov 2008 05:20:36 +0000 http://www.melissaclouthier.com/?p=11459#comment-11033 Anyone else notice that all these financial wizards who were running these enterprises are all ending up in the Obama government? Kind of like the outlaw finishing up his unrepentant life of crime by becoming the sheriff and judge! With the proposed card check payoff to the unions forthcoming from Obama and congress maybe they can keep the car companies afloat until everyone is in the same noncompetitive boat! I am still shocked that Bush is condoning all of this crisis socialism in his last days in office, I guess I misjudged his capitalist principles that I thought he had. The people that are now coming into almost absolute power are the ones that enabled the crisis,pushed punitive regulations on the industry and empowered the unions to extort from the hands that feed them. Not sure what will happen or what should happen but I do know this the taxpayers will pay dearly for all these wonderful leaders errors, whether or not they were purposeful mistakes! Anyone else notice that all these financial wizards who were running these enterprises are all ending up in the Obama government?

Kind of like the outlaw finishing up his unrepentant life of crime by becoming the sheriff and judge!

With the proposed card check payoff to the unions forthcoming from Obama and congress maybe they can keep the car companies afloat until everyone is in the same noncompetitive boat!

I am still shocked that Bush is condoning all of this crisis socialism in his last days in office, I guess I misjudged his capitalist principles that I thought he had.

The people that are now coming into almost absolute power are the ones that enabled the crisis,pushed punitive regulations on the industry and empowered the unions to extort from the hands that feed them.

Not sure what will happen or what should happen but I do know this the taxpayers will pay dearly for all these wonderful leaders errors, whether or not they were purposeful mistakes!

]]> By: Robert Arvanitis http://www.melissaclouthier.com/2008/11/15/human-cost-versus-social-cost-of-letting-the-big-three-die/comment-page-1/#comment-11024 Robert Arvanitis Mon, 17 Nov 2008 02:05:55 +0000 http://www.melissaclouthier.com/?p=11459#comment-11024 Some clarifications on AIG. Individual policyholders are not at risk with AIG. Plenty of assets at the operating insurers, and state guaranty funds to protect the retail side. A cynic would note the following: * AIG wrote lots of cheap credit deals for the likes of Goldman. * An AIG parent default would hurt the likes of Goldman, while the operating insurers would be taken by the various states, and policyholders paid out * Goldman has their own Treasury Secretary. Too bad Lehman and Bear Stearns didn't have thelr own. Everyone should have one. Rather like Monte Python's Holy Grail. Recall the French knight? "Weee hahve ohw-wear own Grail. Eets ah veeery nahce wone." Check it out at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V7zbWNznbs Some clarifications on AIG.

Individual policyholders are not at risk with AIG. Plenty of assets at the operating insurers, and state guaranty funds to protect the retail side.

A cynic would note the following:
* AIG wrote lots of cheap credit deals for the likes of Goldman.
* An AIG parent default would hurt the likes of Goldman, while the operating insurers would be taken by the various states, and policyholders paid out
* Goldman has their own Treasury Secretary. Too bad Lehman and Bear Stearns didn’t have thelr own.

Everyone should have one. Rather like Monte Python’s Holy Grail. Recall the French knight? “Weee hahve ohw-wear own Grail. Eets ah veeery nahce wone.”
Check it out at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V7zbWNznbs

]]> By: david foster http://www.melissaclouthier.com/2008/11/15/human-cost-versus-social-cost-of-letting-the-big-three-die/comment-page-1/#comment-11012 david foster Sun, 16 Nov 2008 22:40:58 +0000 http://www.melissaclouthier.com/?p=11459#comment-11012 rcocean...when an insurance company goes under, people holding the policies will likely find that these policies are worthless when they need them. In the specific case of AIG, the company wrote a lot of debt insurance, so their bankruptcy would likely propagate thru the other financial & nonfinancial institutions holding debt & counting on this insurance. rcocean…when an insurance company goes under, people holding the policies will likely find that these policies are worthless when they need them. In the specific case of AIG, the company wrote a lot of debt insurance, so their bankruptcy would likely propagate thru the other financial & nonfinancial institutions holding debt & counting on this insurance.

]]> By: Dr. Melissa Clouthier http://www.melissaclouthier.com/2008/11/15/human-cost-versus-social-cost-of-letting-the-big-three-die/comment-page-1/#comment-11004 Dr. Melissa Clouthier Sun, 16 Nov 2008 18:45:49 +0000 http://www.melissaclouthier.com/?p=11459#comment-11004 RC, You have a point. All the bailouts are BS. None should happen. I actually think the car companies will get what they want, but it will prolong the inevitable. As for the thousands of workers, they're not blameless. They supported a union who never had the car company's interests at heart. It was me first and more than my fair share--long-term sustainability be damned. When people are paid whether they work or not, the company can't last long. And the auto companies are like the government--layers and layers of bureaucrats whose only motivation is to protect turf. Again, not a recipe for success. RC,

You have a point. All the bailouts are BS. None should happen. I actually think the car companies will get what they want, but it will prolong the inevitable.

As for the thousands of workers, they’re not blameless. They supported a union who never had the car company’s interests at heart. It was me first and more than my fair share–long-term sustainability be damned. When people are paid whether they work or not, the company can’t last long.

And the auto companies are like the government–layers and layers of bureaucrats whose only motivation is to protect turf. Again, not a recipe for success.

]]> By: rcocean http://www.melissaclouthier.com/2008/11/15/human-cost-versus-social-cost-of-letting-the-big-three-die/comment-page-1/#comment-11001 rcocean Sun, 16 Nov 2008 17:32:57 +0000 http://www.melissaclouthier.com/?p=11459#comment-11001 I'd suggest we take $50 billion of the bailout of AIG and give it to the big 3. I've never heard anyone explain why we needed to bailout an insurance company and keep them from bankruptcy. Or why we needed to increase the bailout cost from $85 billion to $150 billion. Of course, AIG has million dollar execs who've run their company into the ground so I guess they're worth saving - unlike the hundreds of thousands of workers who made the mistake of being hired by a car company. I’d suggest we take $50 billion of the bailout of AIG and give it to the big 3. I’ve never heard anyone explain why we needed to bailout an insurance company and keep them from bankruptcy. Or why we needed to increase the bailout cost from $85 billion to $150 billion.

Of course, AIG has million dollar execs who’ve run their company into the ground so I guess they’re worth saving – unlike the hundreds of thousands of workers who made the mistake of being hired by a car company.

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