The Morning After
November 5, 2008 / 10:50 am • By Dr. Melissa ClouthierI have some random thoughts that I’m going to throw up here in no particular order of importance. I’ll put it in list form, though:
- We lost because the only coherent message McCain had was himself. Other than that, I agree with Ace. Not one “big idea”.
- It is not Sarah Palin’s fault we lost. She will be around for a long time. The Republican establishment better get used to it. And McCain’s insiders better keep their yappers shut (they won’t). She will raise more money than anyone. She is a force to be reckoned with. Deal with it.
- The Northeast is lost. Can it be found?
- The South wasn’t as sold Republican as it should have been. Can it be reenergized?
- President Bush will go down in history as a much better president than he has been portrayed these eight years.
- That said, if I hear “compassionate conservatism” one more time, someone gets pounded. Believing in the individual IS compassionate. The government is almost NEVER compassionate in the way they give “help”.
- Obama is in for a rough road. There is no way he can please his base. No way. If he does, he alienates America. If he fails his base. Oh boy……
- The press will still cover for Obama. They have invested too much in him to admit they are wrong.
- It’s over. This election season sucked. It was too long, too fraught and exhausting. It is lame that 2012 is being talked about already, but it’s the way of the world I guess. For me, I’d like a vacation for a while.
60 Responses to “The Morning After”
November 5 2008 / 11:30 am
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President Bush will likely get the Richard Nixon treatment. He’ll be panned for years until he’s on his death bed, at which point people will recall him fondly. A couple of weeks after his funeral everyone will go back to their previous opinions.
November 5 2008 / 11:54 am
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Thoughts on your random thoughts:
1. You’re right – McCain didn’t have anything that defined him. He could have used the economy, but instead let Phil Gramm call us a nation of whiners back in September. Big mistake.
2. Sorry, but a large part of it is Sarah Palin’s fault (or rather McCain’s for choosing her). Picking her was clear pandering to the fundamentalist base, and it backfired. In fact, I believe that she scared the electorate so much that they were willing to elect anyone to ensure that she never had access to real power. She also showed her true stripes the last couple of weeks by starting to abandon McCain. The lack of cohesiveness between a Pres. and VP is not reassuring. The tension between the two of them at his concession speech last night was palpable. Additionally, for most Americans she is simply a walking contradiction. Many wonder how a self-professed conservtive can preach for lower taxes and less government while forcing oil companies in her own backyard to pay royalties to Alaskan citizens, pull earmarks and pork for her state and flip-flop on boondoggle projects like the bridge to nowhere. If she’s going to be around for a long time, then the GOP better get used to losing.
3. The Northeast rejected the McPalin ticket for reasons 1 and 2.
4. The GOP needs to move away from trying to elect leaders based on fundamentalism. Voters in the South rejected McCain as too centrist, but were probably wary of Palin as a pick to try to overtly appease them. Elections should be about three things: The economy, the economy and the economy. Even in the south people understand this, and McPalin never really got this message out. If the GOP could stay on message about the economy, they would win enough other states so that the South is not even a factor. Besides, McCain still got a fair number of electoral rich states in the south, the exception of course being the prize of Florida.
5. Not likely. In eight years he has not accomplished anything of substance other than to bring chaos and disorder to the middleast, economic calamity to the world and allow the world’s most dangerous individual get away. In 2000 Bush was handed the keys to a shiny new Corvette, and like a drunken high schooler he promptly went out and totalled it. His is a shattered legacy, and the sooner he is gone the better off we will all be. If he had any honor or integrity he would start packing right now.
6. You’re right on both counts.
7. You’re right again. The right should in some ways be glad, actually. Obama will be left with an absolute disaster from the previous administration. In all likelihood he will have to raise taxes to cover the drunken sailor spending of the previous administraton, and this will make him extremely unpopular with not only mainstream America but yes, even his base. This is the type of scenario that dogged Bush senior and cost him the ‘92 election.
Two struggling wars, a coming major recession, socialist bailout package, housing crisis and potential global market meltdown. Yup, nice job Bush. Yes, Obama is going to be tested…
8. Sorry, but I call BS here. The press filleted Clinton in 1998. No one turns on their own like the left or the media. Look what the DNC and the press did to Hillary.
9. Amen to that.
November 5 2008 / 11:55 am
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The left is going to be running around now screaming that they have defeated conservatism. They did no such thing, because conservatism was not represented in this election. The choices were center-left and far left, and if the election proves anything, it proves that the center left doesn’t exist in America any more. The near term future of American politics is the ongoing contest between the far left and the center-to-solid right.
November 5 2008 / 12:47 pm
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Now that he’s won, lets get my biggest fear about him out of the way…
On election day, the Ace of Spades website posted a picture of two Iraqi women, with purple-stained fingers showing they had voted in an election.
It was a “Get Out The Vote” message, noting that whatever hardships or inconveniences YOU may experience by voting, “These women literally risked their lives to vote”.
My first reaction to that was, “And THE ONE can hardly wait to sell them out”.
One of my biggest worries about Obama is that his rhetoric on Iraq, and rumored comments about Israel, show an almost casual willingness to sell out allies when convenient.
A commenter on another blog asked, “Who appointed us to be their guardians? Why is it America’s job to make sure they are safe?”
I feel the answer is we’d rather not have the entire world as a nuclear-armed camp, based on the idea that the more countries that have these things, the greater the likelihood that some will eventually be used.
Our alliances with these countries, to protect them, are not out of the goodness of our heart, but for what we see as our own best interests. Sell one out, and you can bet the others will sure take notice.
It seemed that commenter was advocating, “To hell with them, let them take care of themselves!”
Well, the problem there is they might do exactly that, and we may not be too thrilled with the results.
If countries under threat (Taiwan, maybe South Korea, even Japan) feel reason to believe that our word is no longer any good, they’ll almost certainly feel the need for self-sufficiency in nuclear arms as the only real deterrent to someone like China. And note, those countries mentioned ALL have the necessary economic, industrial and technical wherewithal to go nuclear. All they need do is make the decision.
Others, in the Middle East will want them to deter Iran. How about Saudi Arabia and Egypt? Maybe Libya decides that abandoning their efforts was a mistake. THOSE countries may lack the technology, but they can certainly afford to finance it.
It could just go on and on.
THAT, I feel, would be a very likely result of us deciding to just disengage ourselves with these countries.
We’ve tried successfully, and for a long time, to convince others that they did not need them, because WE would provide the protection of a nuclear umbrella.
When they decide we cannot be relied on, the whole thing unravels.
If that commenter gets his wish, and they take care of themselves, it could get real interesting for us as well.
Seeing that we also reside on the same planet, I think it almost impossible we would remain unaffected.
So, standing up for our allies is not merely a nice thing to do; it makes the hardest kind of common sense.
Simply put, we protect others in order to protect ourselves. Abandoning them, selling them out, would be an unbelievably short-sighted (as in STUPID) thing to do, and would hurt us more in the long run. No one would trust an agreement with us; and why should they, given such a record? Instead of being worth anything, our word would only be noise.
And that would be tragic, because WE set its’ value, by our actions.
Please, reassure me that “We have to move on from this” does NOT mean we are going to sell someone out again.
November 5 2008 / 12:53 pm
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As a resident of the People’s Republic of Massachusetts, I would like to point out that 36% of voters voted for John McCain. The Northeast isn’t lost, we’re just out numbered.
November 5 2008 / 12:54 pm
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Quote from news story (Google it) about President-elect Obama:
Rep. John Lewis, a Georgia Democrat and leading player in the civil rights movement with [Rev. Jesse] Jackson, said on NBC’s “Today” show: “He’s going to call on us, I believe, to sacrifice. We all must give up something.”
Makes me wonder, what are they going to expect us to give up?
November 5 2008 / 1:38 pm
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Roxport: Give up your wealth, in the form of confiscatory taxes, give up your right to free speech, in the form of the Fairness Doctrine, and give up your guns.
In January we become a fascist nation. Welcome to the Fourth Reich.
There is a lesson here for Republicans to learn – when we run an old “moderate” – war hero or not – we get pasted. It happened in 1996 with Dole, and it happened in 2008 with McCain.
GOP wins by running as conservatives. While W was a disappointment in a number of ways, as was his father, they ran as conservatives.
So, if we trot out a moderate like Romney or Guiliani in 2012, we’ll get pasted again. If we’re even allowed to vote anymore, and Emporer Arugula I hasn’t become a dictator in the mold of Chavez, Mussolini, Stalin, or Hitler.
November 5 2008 / 2:10 pm
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And frankly we must face the statistical unlikelihood of having a two-term Republican succeeded by another Republican administration. ULIM, that’s only happened once for each party in the last 100+ years (FDR/Truman, Reagan/Bush).
Every now and then an operational pause is required for a new generation of voters to be reminded (painfully) of why a Democrat in the White House is a mistake (i.e., Obama voters who never ‘knew’ Carter).
An African-American in the White House will be a very cathartic experience for many, and I genuinely hope it results in a return to sane dialogue for a race-obsessed generation of Americans. Voting for someone based on the color of their skin is inherently dangerous & stupid.
And there are real dangers in the world. The North Koreans, Syrians, Iranians and ChiComs all understand very clearly that we’ve elected a pacifist for our president. This will be a factor in every aspect of their future interaction, not only with the U.S., but with those nations we have historically defended (Israel, South Korea, Taiwan, the EU, etc.).
Negotiating from a position of weakness has always been the surest path to war.
November 5 2008 / 2:20 pm
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Snoop, you are absolutely right. A new generation of Americans is about to get up-close-and-personal with stagflation, gas lines, rationing, and wage controls. They weren’t around for Carter so they don’t remember. And those of us who do can point to it and say, “See, this is why we don’t believe in the things you believe in. We tried that already, and it didn’t work then either.”
November 5 2008 / 2:35 pm
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Yeah, look at how awful the Clinton years were: peace, prosperity, a booming economy, and a multi-years scandal about Bill’s sex life.
Truly, it was a long national nightmare.
November 5 2008 / 2:52 pm
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Bill Clinton wasn’t nearly as liberal as Obama.
And in 1994, the Dems got pasted. I for one, hope Newt Gingrich gets the RNC gig and engineers a second Republican Revolution.
November 5 2008 / 3:15 pm
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Let me be frank.
Republicans lost because they deserved to. Obama owes Bush a thank you letter and a basket of flowers, because without the stupendous incompetent nightmare of the last eight years, America would never have been compelled to make last night’s decision.
That the Republican brand is actually still defended(!?) on this blog (and the Palin wing extolled) gives me hope for a millennium of Democratic rule.
What you saw in Grant Park celebrating Obama last night was a crowd that looked like America. Black, white, brown, gay, straight, Asian, young, old, rich and poor.
Contrast that with McCain’s crowd (looked like the Mormon Tabernacle Choir got lost in Arizona) – and you see that the wedge Republicans have been riding to power has gone the way of the dodo bird. If there is no reinvention to be had (and from the looks of these comments there is not) then let us watch as the GOP buries itself. Good Riddance.
And McCain was the best shot the GOP had. If they had put up a clown like Mitt Romney, or Thompson, or any of those pretenders – President Obama could have just saved his money and shown up on Inauguration Day without bothering to campaign.
The unfortunate thing is that Cheney / Bush have proven industrious in their ability to fuck things up beyond repair. It will take more than Barack Obama to set things right.
But in a true spirit of national reconciliation, I offer this video as a olive branch to the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. Enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDRk9WYdOnE
PS I very much hope Sarah Palin stays on the main stage. Truly, that would be WONDERFUL. Please, please, insist upon it.
November 5 2008 / 3:29 pm
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I actually think that Bush will be more admired in the next few years than he was in the past five. Why? Because if Biden’s prediction is true, and I believe that it is, then we will face another homeland crisis that trumps 9/11. Even Obama’s “civilian security” won’t help.
I believe that Bush’s legacy is underestimated because 1) people don’t have a “full picture” of the terrorist underground as it really is, and 2) Iraq was really a genious strategic offensive that can’t be appreciated fully yet. Obama, on the other hand, will be dismissed within three years as being too passive, too consiliatory, too much of a liberal revolutionist to preserve our freedoms.
November 5 2008 / 4:05 pm
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Glynn W, way to play that race card! Yu da man!
November 5 2008 / 4:20 pm
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In 50 years people will only remember the broad strokes of Bush’s presidency: he committed us to an unnecessary war, he completely botched Katrina, and he left office during the largest global economic crisis since the Great Depression. His legacy will be a combination of the worst aspects of Hoover and LBJ’s presidencies.
I can’t think of a single accomplishment he’s had that compares in degree to any of those three things, and that list doesn’t even include things that will likely be forgotten in time (his war on science, his dismantling of the bill of rights, his advocacy of torture, his failure to end hardcore partisanship, and on and on and on).
November 5 2008 / 4:21 pm
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Glynn W.
Let me provide some context for you. I agree, the Republicans lost because they deserved to, but it was because they ran a middle of the road, lefty-eaning RHINO, unlike the Democrats who ran a dyed-in-the-wool liberal.
Parties always do better when they play to their base.
Obama out-spent McCain 4 to 1, had the entire MSM doing his bidding, as well as every adversary of the U.S. in the world. And he still only won by 2%.
I’ll take someone willing to defend America over soem cheese-eating, douchebag, apologist any day.
“Hope for a millennium of Democratic[sic] rule.” Hmmm… Where have we heard that before?
November 5 2008 / 5:17 pm
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Seriously,
Why does anyone even bother to respond to Glynn? His ideas are irrelevant. Read them, yes, if only to understand the nature of your enemy. But don’t give that steaming pile of horse manure the satisfaction that it got under your skin. It’s standard liberal boilerplate garbage. It’s going to be a tough four years and the morons who voted this guy in will find out the hard way…or not.
November 5 2008 / 6:49 pm
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Very, very good. I enjoyed reading your piece and appreciate (and agree with) it. Thanks!
November 5 2008 / 6:54 pm
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To Cousin Dave How exactly did Glynn W play the race card? Good God, stop seeing only what you want to see.
November 5 2008 / 7:45 pm
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Yes, Mat,
Please don’t read my words – because then you might actually learn something.
For example, you would have learned a year and a half ago who was going to be the next president – and you would actually have discovered why. You might actually have avoided personal impact from the financial crisis, and you would your stun fellow right-wingers with an improved vocabulary and command of actual facts.
Mat, I would prefer you stay stupid – but out of the sheer goodness of my heart I donate this precious time for your education. I think I shall apply for 401(c) status for my generous charity work on your behalf.
I have patiently suffered such lunatic blathering as yours with equanimity because the doom of your worldview was so patiently obvious. Even now you don’t understand the cause of your own fall. Pitiable. Instead of responding to your situation as a “teachable moment” – you instead continue to dig.
And now this “Cousin Dave” suggests I “played the race card”(!?) Lunacy. Pure and simple. Even my angelic patience is tested by such towering foolishness. Tis no wonder your hero lost.
Please be careful with your approbation, lest I withhold further wisdom from your undeserving maw.
Good day.
November 5 2008 / 8:03 pm
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I was a John McCain fan until June of last year. I expected the “maverick” to run his platform on his accomplishments and resitance to the issues that he did not agree on without party affiliation completely dictating his stance. I was crushed when Bush was placed ahead of him by the “Republican Power Brokers”.
So Bush proved these people incompetant and the door was open for McCain. I believe that most people in the US were rooting for him and would have supported him until …..
He met with the RADICAL Right Wing Religous Leaders of the Republican Party … just as Bush did on his way to the White House.
McCain started the same negative attacks (probably recommended by Bush’s Brain and Cheney) that Bush/Cheney have used for the last 8 years. He never clearly articulated his vision for the R Party because he would have alienated the Neocon Nuts in our party.
Then he picks Sara Palin as his running mate. As she becomes more visible, the choice clearly hurts McCain. She is somehow muzzled by the “brain trust” and the press is told that she is being victimized … because she is a woman.
Think about what the average American saw in that little vingnette. A candidate for the 2nd most powerful job in the world and a person “one heart beat away” from the most powerful position in the world, will not submit to questions about her qualifications, except those from Fox News. EVERY American KNOWS how important a job interview is to their chances of landing the job, but the “braintrust” believed that they could persuade the “Real Americans” that it was OK that Sara Palin was unqualified, uneducated, and just plain ignorant of the requirements of the job and the AWESOME responsiblities of the Presidency. Instead of STUDYING for her interview, that idiot went and spent $200K on clothes for her and her family … The “spin” was so stupid … clothes to charity … Homless women spotted with Saks 5th shoes, bag and really warm coat sleeping under the bridge overpass with the other homeless crowd in NYC.
Well, that BS just doesn’t work anymore. John McCain should lead the party out of this crap and make sure that the current “brain trust” is lobotomized.
The R Party is so out of touch with the American people, real or otherwise, that the opportunity to get John McCain elected was lost. He is a good man and would have made an excellent leader.
I believe that with the advice he received from the “brain trust” and his unwillingness to go against the “Radical Right Wing Base” doomed him from the start.
I have been a Republican all my life, and will continue my party affiliation. However, we need change that the American people grasp and believe in.
The Radical Right is too scary for the average American. The average American is not interested in anything but getting food on the table and securing their future and that of the their children.
One last note. If there is one more brain cell left in the “brain trust” after today that is planning a way to blame the countries woes on the Democrats and Barak Obama, get rid of it quickly. If you haven’t learned anything from this election, Obama is TOO SMART to let that happen. Just look at the campaign he ran and the assualts he withstood from our “brain trust”.
We need to transition the current R Party “brain trust” to people that have the intellectual capacity to re establish the conservative direction, communicate it to the American people, and prove it in actions, not fear, that it is the best direction for country.
Just think, if Obama moves his party a bit more to the center, with a few forays into the moderate right, what are we Repbulicans going to claim as ours … The people that think that he won’t figure that out are in for a great surprise and maybe political extinction.
Get a grip on REALITY!!!
HELP Save The Republican Party!!!
November 5 2008 / 8:08 pm
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@ Snoop-Diggity-DANG-Dawg -
2%???
Obama took 52% of the popular vote.
McCain took 46% of the popular vote.
Net difference is than 6% or 6 point margin.
Obama won more votes than any other individual in American history; over 62million.
McCain trailed by more than 7 million votes at last count.
Obama’s margin of victory is 3.5 times greater than Bush’s 2004 victory.
Obama’s victory is the most decisive victory since Lyndon B Johnson’s 1964 landslide over Goldwater.
From start to finish Obama’s campaign was a picture of a well managed, balanced campaign with shrewd, smart strategic movement.
Regardless of your party affiliation (I myself am independent for the record) if Obama governs our nation half as well as he managed his campaign we will be well prepared to face the many challenges inherited from a failed administration.
November 5 2008 / 8:17 pm
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I wouldn’t be so sure about Palin’s future in the party. I heard earlier, on Fox no less, that McCain’s people are letting the extent of her ignorance out of the bag.
I remember two specific examples. She didn’t know: a) that Africa is a continent, rather than a nation, and b) which nations are included in NAFTA.
I hope for the sake of our democracy that the Republicans can find a stronger candidate than her next time around.
November 5 2008 / 8:21 pm
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Matt . . . you’re kidding, right? She didn’t know what?!
November 5 2008 / 9:02 pm
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KJ,
So you’re assuming that McCain’s choice of someone else would have been better? McCain’s odds were long anyway. The fact is that no Republican candidate was particularly strong this year. Without the conservative base, he would have been screwed anyway. It’s a Catch-22. I think Palin’s more intelligent than the establishment media has let on and will be a viable candidate in 2012 with Bobby Jindal. I’m faintly amused by all of the gloating that the libnuts have right now. We’ll simply see what’ll happen in four years. I don’t think most people who voted for the “messiah” have any idea what they have just done. They’ll find out soon enough.
You are right about one thing. The Republican Party was totally out of touch. They had no coherent message and it showed. One can blame the media for all the nonsense, but in the end, a well managed Republican campaign would have overcome that.
However, I do think you are sadly deluded if you believe Obama will move the Democratic Party to the center. It’s to the left, and it’ll stay there for a long time to come. Obama’s history is replete with examples of being not only a liberal, but actually a leftist. However, a lot of people will find out the hard way.
The problem was not that the Republican Party was conservative, it was the fact that there was no message whatsoever. It tried to be everything to everyone and it didn’t work. I’m glad that the Rockefeller Republicans will be gone after this.
November 5 2008 / 9:07 pm
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Gotta get some cheese for this cracker!
November 5 2008 / 9:31 pm
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Melissa, you’re a fucking Nazi bitch. Thank god you haven’t got an IQ or you could be dangerous.
November 5 2008 / 9:51 pm
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The problem was that the Republican Candidate was not conservative enough. The American people are conservative, not liberal. They want marriage protected. They don’t support abortion on demand. They do support the military. They are religious. They believe in the right to own property, and the right to own weapons. (This is just as true of blacks as it is of whites.) They are, in fact, the “RADICAL Right Wing” that is so constantly smeared.
The Republican Party leaders are NOT conservative. They see a Democrat win and think, erroneously, that they must copy the Democrat philosophy to succeed. Nothing could be further from the truth. Bill Clinton won in 1992 because he ran as a conservative, though his own beliefs were far different. His administration was a success because the Republican Congress forced the Conservative reforms that were needed, often in the face of his opposition.
Barack Obama has done the same. He has presented himself as a military-loving, family-supporting conservative who is going to cut taxes. That’s why he won. McCain is an old-school beltway politician who truly believes that Democrats are nice guys who play fair. That’s why he lost.
November 5 2008 / 10:24 pm
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hi – i just found your site from the huffingtonpost. Based on your photograph ive decided id like to put it in you, but you will have to refrain from speaking because you’re obviously retarded. Be sure to send nudes first!
ps: you can go away now.
Signed The 53% of the country that hates America
pps: Get use to the view from the backseat.
November 5 2008 / 11:23 pm
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“compassionate conservatism.”
Now let’s see if the intrepid Dr. Melissa has the guts to follow through on her threat.
November 5 2008 / 11:27 pm
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Dr. Melissa Clouthier: “And McCain’s insiders better keep their yappers shut (they won’t). ”
So, melissa, why are you against free speech?
November 5 2008 / 11:33 pm
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Good catch Matt. Here’s the transcript of the story, as reported by FNC:
Smith: Now that the election is over, Carl, tell us more about those reports of infighting between Palin and McCain staffers.
Cameron: I wish I could have told you more at the time but all of it was put off the record until after the election. There was great concern in the McCain campaign that Sarah Palin lack the degree of knowledgeability necessary to be a running mate, a vice president, and a heartbeat away from the presidency. We’re told by folks that she didn’t know what countries that were in NAFTA, the North American Free Trade Agreement, that being the Canada, the US, and Mexico. We’re told she didn’t understand that Africa was a continent rather than a country just in itself … a whole host of questions that caused serious problems about her knowledgeability. She got very angry at staff, thought that she was mishandled…..was particularly angry about the way the Katie Couric interview went. She didn’t accept preparation for that interview when the aides say that that was part of the problem. And that there were times that she was hard to control emotionally there’s talk of temper tantrums at bad news clippings…
http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/11/palin_didnt_know_africas_a_con.html
November 5 2008 / 11:38 pm
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You’re right…it was the neocons who killed conservatism.
November 5 2008 / 11:40 pm
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Dr. Melissa Clouthier: “It is not Sarah Palin’s fault we lost. She will be around for a long time. The Republican establishment better get used to it. And McCain’s insiders better keep their yappers shut (they won’t). She will raise more money than anyone. She is a force to be reckoned with. Deal with it.”
She better raise money, based on the way she spends it:
On Wednesday, two top McCain campaign advisers said that the clothing purchases for Ms. Palin and her family were a particular source of outrage for them. As they portrayed it, Ms. Palin had been advised by Nicolle Wallace, a senior McCain aide, that she should buy three new suits for the Republican National Convention in St. Paul in September and three additional suits for the fall campaign. The budget for the clothes was anticipated to be from $20,000 to $25,000, the officials said.
Instead, in a public relations debacle undermining Ms. Palin’s image as an everywoman “hockey mom,” bills came in to the Republican National Committee for about $150,000, including charges of $75,062 at Neiman Marcus and $49,425 at Saks Fifth Avenue. The bills included clothing for Ms. Palin’s family and purchases of shoes, luggage and jewelry, the advisers said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/06/us/politics/06mccain.html?ref=politics
November 5 2008 / 11:46 pm
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please, please, please bring Palin back in 2012.
i as a liberal am begging you to continue putting all your eggs in this empty headed basket.
turns out tina fey’s caricature wasn’t so far off.
ummm, continent, country, hello?
“One aide estimated that she spent “tens of thousands” more than the reported $150,000, and that $20,000 to $40,000 went to buy clothes for her husband. Some articles of clothing have apparently been lost. An angry aide characterized the shopping spree as “Wasilla hillbillies looting Neiman Marcus from coast to coast,” and said the truth will eventually come out when the Republican Party audits its books. ”
please, bring palin back!
November 5 2008 / 11:46 pm
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Dr. Melissa Clouthier: “President Bush will go down in history as a much better president than he has been portrayed these eight years.”
That’s a pipe dream, considering that bush:
- allowed the terrorists to attack us on 911
- failed to capture osama bin laden
- lied us into Iraq, getting 4,000+ soldiers and countless civilians killed there, not mention maimed and wounded
- destroyed America’s reputation around the world
- screwed up the economy
I bet he’s back on the bottle…
November 6 2008 / 12:03 am
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nm.
November 6 2008 / 9:07 am
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What I would suggest to all those lamenting the results on Tuesday is serious consideration of a move to the great northwest — ALASKA!
From what I understand they have a Governor you will absolutely LOVE! You get a big fat check every year from the oil companies AND you’re so far removed from “the lower 48″ that none of the Obama “ickiness” will get on you.
So come on all you true believers, grab a snow machine and a moose tag and head…NORTH TO ALASKA!!!
That will allow the grown ups to handle the serious business.
November 6 2008 / 11:52 am
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Yup. Agree with KJMacMillian.
OUT OF TOUCH!!
November 6 2008 / 11:58 am
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Mat,
I did not say that Obama was going to move the Dems to the right, but that he is smart enough to know that move would cause some major problems with a RP platform going forward. He does have to find middle ground with the the Pelosi and Reid.
Regarding Palin, I do understand she was picked to help him win versus help him govern the country, but just about any Republican Govenor or Senator was a better pick than her. You may not agree, but John M’s chances imploded as soon as Palin started interviews and shopping sprees. I only evaluate candidates on their accomplishments and ability to handle tough questions with the press. She flunked immediately with that foreign policy experience answer, VP responsibilites answers and most recently the violation of her rights answer regarding the press questions.
Blaming the media is another weak excuse. The media will scrutinize all candidates and if someone in either party answers questions like Palin did, they would be treated the same. There are a bunch of left leaning reporters so if you give them an target as easy as Palin and she provides the ammo and pulls the trigger, what should we expect.
The current administration has used the blame attack so much that no one believes much of what they say. I believe that this has spilled over on the Republican Party to the extent that the attack adds turned out to have a “boomerang” effect on the McCain campaign. The brain trust brought up this guy Ayers. Didn’t they know that McCain as Chairman of one of the senate committes gave this guy $480K?? And then Palin go public with the attack without McCain’s OK. He knew that he was exposed on that issue, but Palin must have known better???!!!
Last point about Obama. If you carefully review his history regarding his climb to the Presidency, he has displayed a remarkable ability to be shrewd and deceptively low key, while making the right decisions to further his career and vision. He has been underestimated by EVERYONE in BOTH PARTIES.
He defeated the Clinton machine, he defeated the McCain machine and in his early days, climbed some of the people that helped him enter public service and was able to keep them loyal.
While it is true that the economy and the Bush legacy crippled McCain, give credit to the Obama team that hung that “albatross” around McCain’s neck. They were effective in blunting every attack and keeping the focus on those two issues.
Don’t underestimate Obama or the intelligence of the American people again. All the RP pundits are warning that he will do this and that and screw up this and that and we republicans will be vindicated. All of the pundits need to recognize the “sea change” that has happened in America. Lobotomy is a solution but NEW LEADERSHIP is needed for us. Palin is not the answer she lacks the basic intelligence.
I will point to a great example of the leadership and intelligence of the Obama team. While the RP was describing the internet as a bunch of tubes, the Dems harnessed it potential to raise money, communicate with their active supporters, and finally recruit people that would not otherwise have voted. John McCain was painted as a guy who never used a computer, which was similar to the image the Bush projected when he said he never read the newspapers (which he later retracted because it reinforced the perception that he was out of touch).
There is another post on this forum that says that the election was close only 6%. Another delusionary position to take by a republican.
This is the second election where we were handed a HUMILITATING defeat. We need to find someone that stops believing the BS from the past and gets into this century.
If we keep denying today’s realities, the RP will become irrelavant. The young people that voted this time out will crush us because they now believe that they can have an impact on a Presidential election. I would venture to guess that now they will be able to convince their friends that didn’t vote this time to vote in the upcoming elections. Guess who moblized that vote and knew it was coming …
Karl Rove??? Pat B., John McCain, Palin????
Unfortunately for us it was Obama. I sure hope readers of my post get the message. We face an uphill battle to gain crediblity as a party, identify a platform that people believe, and expand our base beyond the far right.
November 6 2008 / 1:53 pm
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Trish,
I read your post and have the following comments all respect to you and your post.
Obama took the election from Republicans … we did not hand it to him. He has been underestimated from his start …
Your view of America may be the view that you want to believe and it may be true that many people are conservative. The problem is that conservative means something different now than it did at the beginning of the Bush term. I am a life long Republican and cannot articulate what conservative means in relation to the Republican Party. For me it used to mean fiscal restraint, with very little desire to interfere with other peoples lives. Certainly not the case now.
Regarding the values of the rest of America, you tread on thin ice here. There are many Americans that don’t agree with you on abortion, gay rights many other social issues. I know that Sara Palin does not consider these people as “real Americans” and you may not either. Unfortunately, NO ONE has the moral or consitutional authority to define who is a “real American” and who is not. Pretty easy way to convince those “other Americans” on how to vote …
If you are unable to embrace people who have values and views on life that are different than yours or conflict directly with yours I can understand. This type of conflict always put us in uncomfortable positions as human beings. However, it does not grant us the right to declare that other are wrong, un American, or any number of other negative labels.
My opinion about and the RP has been posted. I hope that you have time to read it.
The Radical Right Wing of the RP base deserves all of the negative input. For followers of Christ, this group tries to tell everyone how to live, what to believe, who to support and wields a tremendous amount of power over both its followers and the RP.
Some of the leaders of these powerful religious groups have extramartial affairs, live lavishly and conduct their lives in ways that confound me. Somehow I don’t think that Jesus would have supported taking money from others and spending it on lavish living.
Many of them say that God spoke to them … Somehow I don’t think that he OK’d that MBZ, mansion or the $$$ suits, shoes, etc.
But in the end, it is their choice on how they conduct themselves and how they lead their followers. Joining Falwell or Robertson is not something I could do, but I do support those that do … it is their choice. I just don’t think that they should be protected from public scrutiny or the press.
I hope that you can find a place that allows you to understand that no one or no group has a monopoly on the definitions of “American Values, Patriotism, Right, Wrong, etc.”
When people are not allowed to have the freedoms to religion, press, free speech, bearing arms, that is NOT America. There are many historcal references to countries that went down that dead end road.
Last but not least is Obama. You may have accurately described Obama in your post based on what you know but please consider the following.
Do not underestimate this man. Do not take confort that he will vindicate the RP. That is a dangerous position to take against a man who destroyed our RP candidate and defeated the Clinton machine.
Obama has a golden opportunity to be a great leader and president. We better assume and support his efforts for now for the following reasons:
1. For the good of the country and all Americans.
2. Our party has not credible position to take against him at this point in time. We can’t sit around and become a bunch of “whiners” because he and Dems crushed us in the last two elections.
3. If we continue this “he will fail” we will solidify MORE support behind him because our criticisms now have no substance … sour grapes, hate, racisim. I can see the press having a field day … (after being pummeled by Bush/Cheney most of the media is relishing our crushing defeat) … justifiably so.
4. Bush/Cheney will haunt us until we can distance the party from both, along with all of the other corrupt people in their administration. Obama will not take that “albatross off our necks”. We put it their, we need to remove it.
Republicans should get on with the rebuliding and stop assuming that Obama will fail. That is a flawed position and a flawed strategy … expecting him to fail instead of building a stronger, in touch party with credible,conservative candidates that are well educated and skilled at debating and oratory.
If there is one thing I have re-learned from Bush/McCain/Palin vs Obama …
Speaking intelligently, calmly and thoughtfully in public is powerful at both ends of the spectrum. Instead of a leader who has continued to embarass the country, we now have one that has inspired it.
I do remember a Republican President with those skills … It certainly is not Sara Palin because of the intelligence and thoughtfull requirement for success. The credibility of the RP was severely damaged by her interviews, the stupid attempts at spinning her answers and that idiotic shopping spree incident.
If we go down that road expect another crushing and humiliating defeat.
The RP can do better and should not lower the bar again. If we do, Obama will hang the “Bush Albatross” on our necks again.
I apologize for the long posts.
“Water, Water everywhere and not a drop to drink”
November 6 2008 / 2:43 pm
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“It is not Sarah Palin’s fault we lost. She will be around for a long time. The Republican establishment better get used to it.”
You have got to be kidding me. My contributions go to any candidate who runs against her. The sooner Romney and any other candidate in 2012 send this idiot (there is just no other way to describe her) back to Alaska the better. You better get used to it.
November 6 2008 / 10:34 pm
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KJ,
I seriously doubt there will be much problem with Obama finding “common ground” with Pelosi and Reid. And you’re wrong to say that “any governor” would have helped him out. The fact is that the conservative base was going to sit it out before he selected Palin. If you can find me factual evidence that Pawlenty or another moderate would have totally rejuvenated the conservative base, I would love to see it.
I would agree that Palin was mishandled by the campaign and I really thought that she would have been better off waiting another term before committing herself, but that’s water under the bridge. As for the media, please. I’m not saying they were the sole reason, but to say they weren’t a factor at all is burying your head in the sand. The fact is that if there was a Republican candidate with the past that Obama had he/she would have been eaten alive. But we’re only just now starting to see a trickle of info from the MSM. Coincidence? Doubtful.
Did McCain run a sloppy and pretty dumb campaign? No doubt. There were things that he should have voiced long before his desperation moves two weeks before the election. That was certainly a major factor in his defeat.
As for the Obama, I never said he was stupid. Pelosi is stupid. Obama is very intelligent. However, he is a closet leftist and I do think this will come out once he takes the oath of office on Jan. 20. His campaign did a good job of raising money, had a sound battle plan and did a credible job hiding his past. Is Obama low-key? Absolutely. What’s your point? Most political leaders do or try to. I’m sure he’ll sit above the crap like he always does and send his minions to do his dirty work.
The youth vote was bigger, but they also have no idea what they are talking about. I happen to believe that there will be economic turmoil to say the least in the next four years. Obama’s made an awful lot of promises. He’ll piss off some group one way or another. He can’t have it both ways. Perhaps the youth will wise up. Perhaps not. If the population of this country really wants a socialist government, then that’s what we’ll get. It happens.
November 6 2008 / 11:36 pm
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KJMacMillian–
First, you are wrong. The Republican party handed the election to the Chicago machine on a silver platter.
Second, this isn’t about some misbehavior of some public televangelist. This is about the core values of the American people. You babble, “There are many people who disagree with you about. . .” without even knowing what position I take on those subjects. Your snide comment that “Sarah Palin does not consider these people real Americans” is simply another slur.
I am not talking about “real Americans.” I am talking about the MAJORITY of the American people. Time after time, the American people have voted to preserve the definition of marriage, only to have leftist judges strike down their will. Time after time, the American people have voted for laws requiring parental notification on abortion (not even consent, just notification), only to have such laws struck down. The majority of Americans have ALWAYS favored some restriction on abortion. Barack Obama will not even protect children who are born alive after the event. Incidentally, a higher percentage of black people than white people are pro-life.
Of course, what you are really doing in your post is trying to discredit the facts I present by portraying me as a poor, closed-minded fool who rejects everyone who disagrees with her. Don’t think I missed that, or the condescension. I believe you are a Republican as much as I believe that Barack Obama celebrates the Passover Seder: Next year in Jerusalem.
November 7 2008 / 12:13 am
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@ KJ -
Wow. Your retort to Trish was some of the most intelligent, calm and rational thought I have heard from a Republican in a while. As a matter of fact probably since when I last lay claim to being a Republican some 15 years ago or so.
There are tremendous issues with both parties but the thing about the Republican party which really bothers me is that they have chosen to embrace a radical minority; the Religious Right Wing Conservatives, as the base of thier party. I say this as one who once belonged to radical groups such as Operation Rescue and Missionaries to the Preborn as a young and influential man prior to my experiences traveling the world. This unhealthy infatuation with the Radical Right has made it impossible for people such as myself and many of my friends vote for a Republican even though we agree with some conservative ideals.
When it comes to voting for senators and representative I would love to have a choice. At this stage I do not. I certainly hope the Republican Party figures it out. If they don’t we will hopefully see a third party rise up to give us legitimate options when it comes time to vote for our political leaders.
Thanks again KJ for your thoughtful dialogue. Unfortunately it seems few are grasping what it is you are saying.
November 7 2008 / 12:19 am
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Tag–
Pull the other one.
November 7 2008 / 12:23 am
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A quick note on the media.
Media in the United States is a corporate machine not a political machine. It is embarrasing when viewed from outside of the U.S. but it is what it is. Yes, Fox is obviously leaning conservative and CNN tends to be more liberal but ALL U.S. media looks out for number one first.
I see little which would suggest the media favors one candidate over the other. There were more positive Obama reports than positive McCain reports but that says more about the strategic mistakes McCain made and Obama did not than a “media spin”.
The media does whatever it can to be the first with the juiciest and most colorful story. Hence the creation of Paris Hilton.
Anyone who wishes to be taken seriously would be well advised to leave the media conspiracy out of the conversation. The media is its own brand of scum.
Just a thought.
November 7 2008 / 12:25 am
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Ah. I see.
Tag is posting satire.
November 7 2008 / 11:01 am
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agree
November 7 2008 / 11:10 am
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Tag,
Yeah, next time I see a major network or paper run a softball story about a democrat, while launching a vicious attack on a republican, I’ll remember those thoughts. The fact is that whenever a democrat does something which is bad, the story leaves out the party affiliation. However, when a republican does something bad, there’s a big R right next to the name. I have a journalism major, so I think I’m at least in some position to know what I’m talking about.
November 7 2008 / 5:03 pm
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Mat,
Next time a Republican does something bad, watch major news corporation, Fox News. Watch that giant R turn into a giant D so the Repulican is associated with the Democrats.
I’m not a journalism major but I know what I’m talking about because I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.
November 7 2008 / 6:44 pm
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@jsc
LOL! Exactly…
November 7 2008 / 8:03 pm
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@ Mat -
“If it hadn’t been for Fox, I don’t know what I’d have done for the news,” Trent Lott, Washington Post, 2/5/01
The notion any of the major news media are “fair and balanced” is almost as ridiculous as suggesting the “main stream media” created the Obama movement.
I am actually quite fine with the news being slanted one way or the other as people generally are. It is silly for corporate news network to state that they are “fair and balanced.” You will rarely hear anything bad with the Republicans on the Fox news network just as you will rarely hear anything bad about Democrats on MSNBC.
I am not okay with the sensationalism they currently call journalism. The competition to be the first to reveal the latest gossip. Which is unfortunately what makes up the majority of “news” within the United States today.
Regardless, sensationalism is hardly some sort of liberal conspiracy that somehow mysteriously assured Obama’s victory. If the “press” (I will assume Melissa is talking about media with a liberal slant as opposed to the press as a whole) invested in anything it was the Clinton campaign.
Finally, Fairness and Accuracy In Reporting (www.fair.org) said it perhaps best when they wrote:
With the ascendance of Fox News Channel, we now have a national conservative TV network in addition to the established centrist outlets. But like the mainstream networks, Fox refuses to admit its political point of view. The result is a skewed center-to-right media spectrum made worse by the refusal to acknowledge any tilt at all.
Fox could potentially represent a valuable contribution to the journalistic mix if it admitted it had a conservative point of view, if it beefed up its hard news and investigative coverage (and cut back on the tabloid sensationalism), and if there were an openly left-leaning TV news channel capable of balancing both Fox’s conservatism and CNN’s centrism.
November 7 2008 / 8:05 pm
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@ Trish -
I realize it may have been an unintentional reference on your part but the Obama campaign should never be confused with the “Chicago machine.”
As one who spent 15 years living in the heart of beautiful Chicago it unfairly connotates a corrupt campaign with which Chicago has been historically notorious of.
If Obama were a Daly, I may let that term slide. He is not and as such it borders on libel.
November 8 2008 / 8:44 pm
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It was absolutely intentional, dear. The Obama campaign was run by the Daley machine.
Truth is an absolute defense against libel. The corruption of the Obama campaign is truth.
November 8 2008 / 8:48 pm
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Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting reveals its own left wing bias when it describes the left-leaning MSM as “established centrist outlets.” In doing so, they clearly demonstrate that they are neither fair nor accurate.
November 9 2008 / 1:25 am
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@ Trish -
Daly missed the boat to control Obama when he decided to support Obama’s opponents both in 2000 and 2004. By 2005 Daly realized that he was obviously going to have to change his opinion of Obama since Obama was not going anywhere. In 2007 Daly finally officially supported Obama which of course was welcome but really more of an attempt by Daly to not be left behind.
Obama has always worked through the grassroots which ultimately was the correct strategy in today’s world. As a fellow Chicago community activist prior to moving out to California a couple of years ago I learned as well to make things happen it has to start at the bottom. The ability to connect the bottom to the top is how we progress. It is how I was able to help improve my own impoverished neighborhood deal with our plethora of issues and how I was able to put together and complete successful projects in the Gulf Coast post-Katrina; using the power of local people who are invested into thier community.
I will say it one more time, Obama is not congruent with Daly. Chicago is really the one connection there. Beyond that Daly had little use for Obama until he organized what sometimes were referred to as “Lakefront Liberals” but as a former lakefront resident I prefer to call it like it was, residents concerned for thier neighborhood looking for positive change.
That being said, of course the relationship is mutually beneficial for both parties. That being said, I ASSURE you the Obama Campaign was hardly ran by the Daly and the Chicago machine. If anything Obama is more likely to call out Daly on his sometimes ridiculous management of the great city of Chicago.
No, the Obama Campaign is something much greater than any Chicago politician could have devised! Believe me, I lived and worked in a decade and a half of it.
At no time in history has a presidential candidate raised as much money for a campaign as Obama. How is that possible? By deciding not to take party money when so much more can be made from the millions of Americans who vote. Those thousands of volunteers from California that I was privileged to work with did not canvas the Nevada nieghborhoods because of Chicago, they did it because they believe in a better world and are willing to roll up their sleeves and work for it. It is going to take work, but as long as everyone puts in the work tomorrow will be good. The success of Obama is not his alliances with other politicians, it is his ability to empower people, allow people to have a stake or an actual investment in our country. It is the equivalent of helping people become homeowners as opposed to renters.
I am not sure of what truth you speak of explicitely. I do recognize truth in some of your statements. Truth mingled with misrepresentation; however, is the most dangerous of lies and how Bush drove this nation into the ground. To say “the corruption of the Obama campaign is truth” is a misrepresenation at best and had I not believed that perhaps you are simply misinformed I would call it a slanderous statement.
If you don’t remember a thing about what I have said please at least remember to approach all things like a good historian; from the source. Source materials and the point of origin is the only place to find truth, anything else though perhaps present with truth is the truth seen through someone’s filter.
Don’t buy the program when you can change the channel.
November 10 2008 / 11:38 pm
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Trish,
It seems that I have struck a nerve. My posts are aimed at the future not at anyone person or group. The Republican party has been soundly defeated in the last two national elections.
It seems like you have nothing but hate inside for anyone who disagrees with you or posts something that you don’t like. I don’t take things that are personally so if I apologize if you were expecting a fight or a bunch of nasty dialogue. That approach to life drains me.
If you are upset with the Supreme Court regarding Roe vs Wade, and the preservation of marriage between a man and woman exclusively, I suggest that you contribute some of your hard earned money to support the legal efforts on behalf of those causes. Additionally, you might think of contributing your personal time to supporting your position in your community and perhaps go statewide. Your contributions on both fronts would be welcome. I don’t presume to know if you do these things, so please don’t be offended by my suggestion.
Regarding your comment where you disagree with me about the impact of a scandal by televangalists, I believe that our party was hurt by them and the congressional leaders that were involved in similar scandals. These people conducted themselves in ways that were shameful. Until we get back to our conservative roots and take steps to eliminate this behavior, we will be esposed to critics.
Regarding my political affiliation, I am a Republican closing in on 13th presidential election. Again, I don’t know why you want to hate and disparage my posts, but that is your right.
I don’t know if you are closed minded or anything else about you. I assume that you are a decent and kind person and I understand that you are upset about the election and all the information that is floating around, some fact some not so factual. It can be upsetting and bring out the worst in us … I had my share of rants about Clinton. I just don’t want to be that angry again about politics.
I want to win not whine about all of the crimes and misdemeanors that Obama has committed, will commit or how he will fail and the world will come to an end. For me that is a pitch black, dead end street with a thousand foot drop somewhere in that darkness …
The intent of my posts are not personal attacks or subtle attacks on anyone. I would like to see some positive progress on the rebuilding of the RP platform.
KJ
November 11 2008 / 9:11 am
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*raises glass to KJ*
I don’t belong to any particular party but agree wholeheartedly sir!
March 15 2009 / 12:04 am
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Commenting usually isnt my thing, but ive spent an hour on the site, so thanks for the info